Nourish and Navigate, Episode 3: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Rebecca Takemoto

Welcome to Nourish and Navigate. I'm Rebecca Takemoto, Executive Director of Women in Nutraceuticals. Today we're diving into a topic that so many of us experience but rarely talk about openly, imposter syndrome. In this episode, we sat down with Nikki Putnam Badding, Jen Cannon, and Cheya Thousand on female leadership, and together, we unpack why imposter syndrome is so common among women, especially in male dominated industries like ours, and we hear practical ways to recognize it, manage it, and move through it with confidence.

Understanding Imposter Syndrome

Rebecca Takemoto: Nikki and I worked on this win leadership summit together, and I tasked Nikki with filling a session. We had a good brainstorm, and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about how did we come up with how did you come up with imposter syndrome as a topic. It has come up multiple times throughout the day, but we really wanted this session. You really wanted this session to be around that tell me a little bit about how you landed there, why it's important right now. Yeah.

Nikki Putnam Badding: Well, firstly, thank you for letting us put this session on the program, because I think when we were talking about it, you and I, and at the greater group with the committee, it was a common theme that kept coming up when we were talking about a lot of other topics that we could cover. Imposter syndrome just kind of kept creeping into all of those conversations. And we all decided as a group that it was really important to address this as a whole, kind of bring that conversation into the light, because so many people, especially women, have experienced imposter syndrome throughout their lives.

Rebecca Takemoto: So tell me, in the new frame, whatever in your words, what is it? Why do we all deal with it for

Jen Cannon: Well, if we think about a syndrome in general, it's it's a persistent feeling. It goes over time, so it's not that fleeting moment of having, oh gosh, I'm going to second guess myself right now. Those are more performance anxiety. And actually that equates to sports very, very closely. It's like you step up to the plate and you feel this instant performance anxiety. And when I talk to my baseball players, I also am a baseball coach, I tell them to just do not think so. When you get into those situations that are kind of a snippet or a snapshot or a one off experience that you have with what you feel like is imposter syndrome, it might just be performance anxiety, but if it goes for a lengthened amount of time, that's when you have to say, okay, what are my tools? How do I really determine if this is what it is? And so I think defining what what imposter syndrome is, is actually really critical and key. So it's that persistent feeling of self doubt, even though data says otherwise.

Balancing Confidence and Vulnerability

Rebecca Takemoto: How do you balance that confidence that's important and the transparency or the "Help me," how do you balance that, particularly in a professional setting?

Jen Cannon: You know, that's a great question inside of my head when I'm in a situation. Let's say that it's in a senior leadership team, and I might have some male counterparts, and sometimes the tendency of male is to speak right away, to maybe fill every pause with words or with a thought or with an opinion, and there for a while, I thought, well, maybe I need to do that, and it just didn't feel right. You and I were speaking earlier about authenticity, and authenticity is such a core value of mine that I refuse to act like someone else. I refuse to take on a masculine leadership role just because maybe that person got ahead over me. And so I think that when you're in those situations, you can simply step back and go, it's okay for me to not be the loudest voice in the room. Right now, I'm going to get my thoughts together, and then at the right moment, I'm not going to be afraid to ask the question or to say, 'Hey, maybe others are thinking this in the room, and if not, it might just be me, and that's okay.' You don't have to have this fear of being discovered or figured out that you don't know everything. And I think just not being afraid to ask questions and present your information in a way that others can relate to, rather than I have to know everything and there's this, there's this us versus them mentality. That's not how it is. It should be a peer group, and you should be in the right room of people that support you. Sometimes I think that we're inside of these corporate cultures that maybe we're not a fit for. And I think that's also okay to raise that question, are you in a room of people that are your advocates? Would they say your name if you're not there?

Rebecca Takemoto: So talk to me a little bit about I feel like I am constantly giving myself permission to ask questions, to put myself out there authentically, which, which came late in my career, I will say I was a very early like, business owner, and felt like I had to fake it. And when I had little kids and I had to, like, go to soccer, I would pretend that's not where I was when I was talking to clients, or, you know, that kind of so how do you balance that confidence and vulnerability, or like being willing to ask questions, how do you balance that in leadership?

Cheya Thousand: So two things. The word balance is a thing that I don't use often, if ever, and if I do, it's because other people recognize it, and then I like to change people's frame of mind and reframe it as harmony. We need to lean into the ebbs and flows of our life, and that's harmony. So balance is a flat line. If you're seeking balance, you're dead, but your heartbeat goes this way. So sometimes you might have to be a little bit more mom, and in that season, you were mom and boss and you were trying to figure it out. You might have to step away from the field to have the conversation, and it's okay to say, 'Hey, I'm at my kids soccer game,' because one thing we need to know is that people are human and real, and this, too is important to me. You're important, but my child is also important to me, so I'm at this game and I'm taking this call, and that's okay. I think I'm big on permission, so I love that you said that word. I'm very big on permission, and we don't give ourselves permission enough, as women, men take up all the space, all the permission. No, take up all the space, grant yourself all the permission, because I used to get in trouble all the time for asking the questions, and I'd always go 'just seeking clarity.' People don't like that. And men specifically used to tell me, you come off very rude, and because I'm seeking clarity, because I'm asking a question? I'm trying to gain understanding. And they were like, but it's how you say it, and it makes them uncomfortable. But if I don't ask the question and I don't perform the way you think I should, then I'm also going to get dinged. So guess what? I'm just going to ask the question and get dinged on the right side of dinging. And what I've also learned is I'm okay with asking for forgiveness versus permission, because a lot of people's default is 'no,' and if I know you're a defaulted no person, now you're going to ask me, 'How'd you do that thing?' And I'm like, 'Oh, by the way, this is what I've been doing the whole time. But I figured you'd say no, but now that you've asked, I can tell you what I've been doing the whole time,' and that's been successful.

Tools for Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Rebecca Takemoto: How do we even start to deal with imposter syndrome? Like, what are some of the first tools in that toolkit?

Jen Cannon: You know, I always like to talk to people about having an anchoring statement, and for mine, it's 'What's the worst that could happen?' So if you face that moment where you start to panic and you start to self doubt, what if they find out? What if they think I'm a fraud? What if I don't deserve to be here? You step back and go, 'Okay, in this moment in time, what's the worst that could happen?' here at the plate? It's I strike out. Okay, you have 20 more at bats this tournament. You'll be fine. In professional settings, it's more 'Okay, I might say something, or I might not have a great start to my presentation.' Okay, everybody's been there, you're not going to get fired on the spot. They might say, 'Hey, what are some tools? What's some coaching or some guidance that we could give you or provide to you, so that when you're in that situation and you face it again, you could overcome it?' So I think turning that statement into, what's the worst that could possibly happen if you bombed horrendously, you probably got another year under your belt that you could figure out how to make it work, right? We've all been there. We've all taken on new roles and then taking it and saying, Okay, I am going to look at the data, and the data shows that in these situations, I have performed very well. I have earned my spot to be here, and I deserve whatever is given to me.

Rebecca Takemoto: So if you could give one daily mantra or like mindset or something that you want, particularly young women that are maybe seeking their first manager, or older women seeking their first like C suite or something like that, executive leadership. What's one thing you want those women to hold on to, to remember.

Cheya Thousand: You are worthy, and set boundaries early. When we don't think we're worthy, we'll just allow ourselves to accept anything, and we're just so happy to be there. No, you're there because you're worthy. Two. Do you set boundaries early because you show people what's important to you, and when we don't set boundaries early, we're the person who's there before everyone comes in. We're the person that's there after everyone leaves, and then our personal lives suffer. I don't think we have to sacrifice our well being and our families for our success. You can have it all, but it comes with boundaries. This Earth was created with boundaries. The water knows not to go past the sand, so we have to live our lives in the same way. And if the earth exhibits boundaries, what makes us exempt from them?

Rebecca Takemoto: And that our boundaries can be our own to draw. That's something I think as women, we don't always learn until too late that we can set our own boundaries and make the world work around our boundaries.

Cheya Thousand: And because of that, they're your personal code of conduct and your North Star. So once you're clear about that, you can say no to things easier. You say yes to the things you really want. And it's a value alignment. There's no more misalignment because you're like, that's a boundary. And if someone tries to convince you, like, no, because that's boundary, and you're like, super okay and confident with your no.

Rebecca Takemoto: Are there ever... I'm trying to, I'm trying to kind of gather wisdom about daily habits, or, you know, mindset shifts, or little things that you can do to kind of combat that before it happens.

Nikki Putnam Badding: Yes, something that actually both of the speakers Cheya Thousand and Jen Cannon in our session brought up, were kind of this self talk and preparation. Cheya had talked about having little notes that she writes to herself for wins. I do something similar. I have a folder on my laptop and it just says, 'well done.' And I put all my little notes in there that somebody has sent me an email saying, Great job, or we completed a successful project. And I put those in there because sometimes you need to look back at it and see your wins. Another one is, I do do quite a bit of public speaking, and I still get nerves, you know, I've spoken in front of many, many crowds. Some, you know, 5000 people. I still get nerves. But someone told me one time, 'No one in the audience knows as much as you do about the topic you're about to present.' Even if there are other experts on that topic, they don't know exactly what you're going to say. You're the one who knows it the best. And Jen had brought up kind of having a mantra or an anchoring statement. So in those scenarios, that's mine is no one knows as much as me in this moment on this topic, and it does help, it helps you feel like just kind of calms that self doubt, so that way you can move through it.